someone please start a thread where we define the minimum GPAs at the following tiers:
1 Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Lazard
2 Credit Suisse, LB, UBS etc
This what I saw from going through the recrutiing process this year and the previous year (for internships):
Goldman: GPA standards aren't any different from any other BBs on the street. It's interesting, but I think Goldman actually likes to interview some rogue candidates (I know someone who got an interview there with a sub 3.0 GPA, and another who go an interview with a 3.2. And someone who got a job there with a 2.7). I would say their minimum is generally a 3.5 at my school (top 3 ivy) unless you have a highly quantitative major (like math), in which case it drops to about 3.4/3.3. So 3.5 is the minimum, but I would say that they mostly interview people with around a 3.6+ GPA (unless you did an ibanking internship, in which case the standards change somewhat).
Morgan Stanley: They have somewhat higher GPA standards than Goldman (at least from what I saw). Usually won't interview below 3.6, and generally interview candidates with 3.6/3.7+.
CS, LB, JPM, UBS, etc: 3.4 minimum, generally interview candidates with 3.5+.
Wachovia, BofA: 3.3 minimum, generally interview candidates with 3.4+.
Lazard, Blackstone: probably have the highest GPA standards of the bunch, basically because they are the top "boutiques" (I know lazard isn't really a boutique) - so they interview far less people than Goldman, etc. so they can afford to have higher GPA standards. I would say minimum GPA for Lazard is 3.7, minimum for Blackstone is slightly higher. Lazard generally interviews 3.8+, Blackstone generally interviews 3.8/3.9+.
Greenhill, etc: slightly higher standards than the BBs. Usually 3.6/3.7+.
Anyway, I've been through this great process twice, and pretty much know where all of my friends and where I got interviews, so I would say that this is my best opinion.
Caveats: Having a math or engineering major will generally drop the GPA standard slightly. Being a minority will drop the GPA standard to about 3.0/3.1 among the BBs, and helps much less among Lazard, Blackstone, etc. Being female doesn't seem to help all that much - it probably helps slightly among the BBs, but not at all among Blackstone, Lazard, Greenhill, etc. (presumably because there is not as much female and minority interest and they are hiring a small class, so they can justify hiring an all white, male class).
rat4100:
This what I saw from going through the recrutiing process this year and the previous year (for internships):Goldman: GPA standards aren't any different from any other BBs on the street. It's interesting, but I think Goldman actually likes to interview some rogue candidates (I know someone who got an interview there with a sub 3.0 GPA, and another who go an interview with a 3.2. And someone who got a job there with a 2.7). I would say their minimum is generally a 3.5 at my school (top 3 ivy) unless you have a highly quantitative major (like math), in which case it drops to about 3.4/3.3. So 3.5 is the minimum, but I would say that they mostly interview people with around a 3.6+ GPA (unless you did an ibanking internship, in which case the standards change somewhat).
Morgan Stanley: They have somewhat higher GPA standards than Goldman (at least from what I saw). Usually won't interview below 3.6, and generally interview candidates with 3.6/3.7+.
CS, LB, JPM, UBS, etc: 3.4 minimum, generally interview candidates with 3.5+.
Wachovia, BofA: 3.3 minimum, generally interview candidates with 3.4+.
Lazard, Blackstone: probably have the highest GPA standards of the bunch, basically because they are the top "boutiques" (I know lazard isn't really a boutique) - so they interview far less people than Goldman, etc. so they can afford to have higher GPA standards. I would say minimum GPA for Lazard is 3.7, minimum for Blackstone is slightly higher. Lazard generally interviews 3.8+, Blackstone generally interviews 3.8/3.9+.
Greenhill, etc: slightly higher standards than the BBs. Usually 3.6/3.7+.
Anyway, I've been through this great process twice, and pretty much know where all of my friends and where I got interviews, so I would say that this is my best opinion.
Caveats: Having a math or engineering major will generally drop the GPA standard slightly. Being a minority will drop the GPA standard to about 3.0/3.1 among the BBs, and helps much less among Lazard, Blackstone, etc. Being female doesn't seem to help all that much - it probably helps slightly among the BBs, but not at all among Blackstone, Lazard, Greenhill, etc. (presumably because there is not as much female and minority interest and they are hiring a small class, so they can justify hiring an all white, male class).
Hey, are these cut-offs for Ibanking alone or for the firm overall? What if someone applies to Asset Mgmt of Goldman? The cut-offs will change accordingly, right?
sweetsweetyayo:
aspiring monkey, you've never been remotely involved with an I-bank. How the hell can you possibly quote GPA's for banks when you've never been near the field. Stop posting erroneous information that you have no clue about. Please stop, your posts are worthless.
see thats what amazes me about people like you...you KNOW the right answer...but you choose to flame me instead of posting the right information.
So go back to blowing a goat after ODing on cocaine, your contribution to this topic is worthless.
To aspiringmonkey -
As you can see if you read my post (or perhaps you read it but didn't understand...), I made a distinction between minimum GPA and the GPA that they usually interview above.
You don't go to a target school, you've never even had an interview yet you continue to make comments (900+) the vast majority of which are completely erroneous...you really need to leave. Your comments are completely wrong here - It's nearly impossible to get an interview at Lehman Brothers with a 3.3 from a target even, and absolutely impossible to get an interview at Lazard with a 3.5. Goldman's standards are no higher than any other BB. If you went to a target school or worked at a bank and had seen the recruiting process, you would know this. Really, just leave. As someone who recieved many IBD offers and has seen who gets offers and who doesn't, I would like to personally guarantee you that you will not get a signle IBD offers this year. You should like a huge loser, and honestly you probably won't even get any interviews with a 3.5 from a non-target (the 3.5 general standard is for those from a target school; all of the non-target interns at my bank this summer had very high GPAs (we're talking 3.8 and above).
rat4100:
To aspiringmonkey -As you can see if you read my post (or perhaps you read it but didn't understand...), I made a distinction between minimum GPA and the GPA that they usually interview above.
....so the whole GPA thing does NOT go out the window once you snag an interview? what's the story? are they gonna be like, "yeah we're interviewing u just for fun, the truth is our minimum is 3.5"
17y
I know a few kids at goldman with 3.0s from my school (target Ivy). So I dont know what that means.
But people generally say 3.5.
So, there really is no true "minimum" GPA - you could get an interview with a 1.0. I meant the general minimum GPA - this means that of their interviewees, 20% may have that GPA. Sure there may be ONE person of the 60 they're interviewing with a 1.0, so I guess that is the "bare minimum" GPA.
i went to a target school and work at a BB (and maybe one that was even mentioned in this post!). i can definitely attest to the fact that 3.5+ GPA is what they tend to look for, unless you have prior banking experience, networks, or some other interesting element on your resume. if there's nothing outstanding about your credentials, i don't really know why one would be considered with a GPA less than 3.5...there are enough people in banking with good GPA's that they have to draw the cut-off somewhere. even non-BB shops like BofA and Wachovia tend to look for at least 3.3. thousands of resumes get sent in yet there are only a small proportion of spots available...think about it.
also, think about it this way -- if you couldn't work hard enoguh to get a 3.3 (assuming your major isn't cs/ee) then one has to wonder if you are really cut out to handle the long hours in banking/finance...so really, it is not unerasonable
also, not sure where aspiringmonkey is getting his info...weird, if he's never gone through recruiting process before. 900+ posts? wow
* http://www.linkedin.com/in/numicareerconsulting
rat, I'll resist the urge to quote, because it'll look huge.
A) My reply for minimum was to the thread starter, I didn't even see your reply until I hit submit
b) Congrats you can read, yes I don't go to a target school, yes I didn't have an ib interview yet, and yes I post a lot....but leave? f*ck you, I'm here for myself, so I will not bend over backwards for a little sh*t like you, don't like my posts? Ignore them...no one is forcing you to read.
And the whole erroneous thing...I have a disclaimer for a reason...so that cum dumpsters like you wouldn't get your panties in a wad.
Goldman's standards ARE higher, they are a top tier BB, they rank first in the tables...you REALLY think their standards are the same as Citigroup etc? What are you retarded?
Leaving is not an option, so stop suggesting it.
"You should like a huge loser" hrm, for someone who talks all high and mighty you sure make a lot of spelling mistakes.
"Signle IBD offers", jeez you are on a roll there buddy, I'm well aware what my chances are like...no need to remind me. If I get a chance to interview you can bet your ass I'll get an offer...I interview EXTREMELY well. And I think my chances for an interview from a boutique etc, are pretty good, because even though I have a 3.5, my major GPA is 3.8.
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
Goldman's GPA standards are not higher; their standards for ECs, personality, etc. are somewhat higher, in that they can afford to only give offers to those who truly fit within their organization since it's likely that most of their offers will be accepted.
As for the spelling mistakes - I, unlike you, don't have all day to stay on here and check my posts. I go to Yale, and I actually spend a lot of time working hard to compete with the other very smart people here and earn a high GPA, which has rewarded me with many banking interviews/offers. And I'm happy that banking is so selective; it ensures I won't have to work with stupid little slime like you next year :)
aspiringmonkey, why do you feel the need to post advice to every single question posed?
im not trying to be rude, but it seems a bit ridiculous that the person with the least amount of real hand experience is the one dishing out the most advice. you may be helpful if there weren't any real bankers on this board, but there is a decent enough size of real bankers on this board that your advice on every single issue isn't needed. let us answer the questions, and why don't you take a step back and learn something?
"Goldman's standards ARE higher, they are a top tier BB, they rank first in the tables...you REALLY think their standards are the same as Citigroup etc? What are you retarded?
This statement shows why you need to stop posting advice. Analysts at every single BB are VERY COMPARABLE in terms of academic accomplishments and the like. every analyst at every bank does the same f*cking thing. GS analysts are not "geniuses." a lot of the hiring decision is based on "personality" fit.
PS- learn to be humble
And, no one cares about your major GPA in banking. Banking is not mind-boggling work. Banks look for endurance and hard work in IB candidates - which is best shown through a very high CUMULATIVE GPA. They don't want to hire someone who works really hard in one area, but slacks off in other areas that they find less interesting (rest assured, banking as an analyst requires plenty of non-finance work).
A high major GPA is really only good for trading. For trading, banks want to hire geniuses. The hours aren't bad, so they don't care as much about endurance. If you have a 4.0 math GPA but a 3.3 cumulative GPA and are applying for trading, that's great and the bank will be impressed. If you have the same situation for ibanking, it's not as great.
All you do on this site is pretend like you can give good IB advice, brag about your "life experiences" and assume you will get accepted into a top MBA program for Associate.
You reek of desperation.
I can't stand some of the idiots on this site either (like Wasting Time), but you're getting quite tiresome as well.
There's nothing wrong with posting, but STOP acting like you know everything when you haven't even had a f*cking interview yet.
agree with the Goldman post. I was amazed that alot of the alums I met at goldman told me they had under 3.5 GPA's, but they had fantastic personalities and got lucky. A lot of times, especially coming from a target, you get an interview based on which alums reviewed the resume book. So, you might suck, but if you were on a sport team/in a frat/or whatever with a few of the first year/second year alums, they'll put in a good word and say "Hey, I know this guy/girl. He/she is very intelligent and awesome, etc." I used to get blitzes from my alum friends at the banks, usually taunting saying "I've got the resume book!" and I'm pretty sure that's why i received interviews at places I probably didn't have a chance otherwise, especially when 150 kids from your school drop and they could only interview 30...
Anyway, I realize I'm just reiterating everyone else said. Lol. Sorry 'bout that.
"Blitzes"...how'd you like Dartmouth?
rat,slime? Hrm look who is acting all high and mighty. You are a poster child for an ibanker.
mike,I don't give advice, I give my opinion...different things. No one is stopping you from answering the questions. Yes analysts do the same thing all across the board, but Goldman is #1 choice for pretty much everyone, so Goldman gets to select the cream of the crop.
P.S. I am humble
rat..again,its not about working hard in 1 area, major GPA is usually the GPA for the most recent classes. + I dunno about you, but it shows what someone can do when they are interested in the subject. i.e. Since entering the business school, I had a 3.92 GPA. Before business school I had a few semesters of 2.8-3.1, when you do something you enjoy it sticks better and you succeed.
still,all of those things you listed, were from 1 thread...stick around a little longer, and don't base someone's character based on a few posts. Oh and I like how you throw me in with the racists...really Giving Bad advice or burning crosses...its obviosly they are the same thing.
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Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
how about this, once I reach 1000 posts, I'll stop posting for exactly 1 week...will give you guys some time to catch up, and you'll get a chance to give your own advice...w/o getting beat to the punch by a nobody.
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
"I don't give advice, I give my opinion...different things. No one is stopping you from answering the questions. Yes analysts do the same thing all across the board, but Goldman is #1 choice for pretty much everyone, so Goldman gets to select the cream of the crop."
You haven't interviewed at Goldman, you haven't interviewed anywhere. You don't know sh*t about the Goldman recruiting process. You don't know how Goldman selects their analyst. Stop posting about it... you have no credibility to speak on the issue.
Don't f*cking lie..you give out advice on practically every thread ("oh, i would wait a few days before contacting HR). Don't kid yourself.
Why are you so hard-headed? You dish out advice like you are steve f*cking nash, but you refuse to take any from anyone else. if you really want ibanking, go f*cking network. like someone else said, there's no such thing as "exhausting" network options. instead of arguing with him, why don't you go f*cking network?
oh, i forgot...you don't need to. your 4.0 Harvard MBA will get you into ibanking.
Now when the f*ck is my VP going to get the book back to me????
PS- you aren't humble
"What are you retarded?""I interview EXTREMELY well"
just a few examples.
actually I am very humble, in person, here I don't really give a sh*t...so I might seem arrogant :P
fine I'll admit it..I give advice...happy? But since I have a disclaimer, its your own fault for following it.
but as far as networking is concerned? It won't work for me. For me to network I need to know the person I get referred by. I can't just say "Oh yeah I saw your name on ____ why don't you look at my resume'
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Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
aspiringmonkey:
actually I am very humble, in person, here I don't really give a sh*t...so I might seem arrogant :Pfine I'll admit it..I give advice...happy? But since I have a disclaimer, its your own fault for following it.
but as far as networking is concerned? It won't work for me. For me to network I need to know the person I get referred by. I can't just say "Oh yeah I saw your name on ____ why don't you look at my resume'
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Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
actually that's exactly what you do. you find their name on the database, call them up, ask to talk to them about their job for a while, and if you make a good impression, they will just ask you to send them your resume. I'm a junior and have called at least 7-8 people at different banks who all asked me to send them my resume at the end of the discussion.
I disagree. We aren't talking about networking here...we are talking about cold calling, there is a difference there.
And yes Ibanking is about client relationships, but when you do cold call its easier because you have the name of your bank to hide behind.
You don't say "hi my name is joe can I talk to the CEO?", you say "hi my name is Joe, I'm with Goldman IB department...can I talk to so and so"
big what kind of things do you talk about? That was my biggest problem with networking, there is only so many questions you can ask, and 90% of the time you get the same exact answer
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
aspiringmonkey:
I disagree. We aren't talking about networking here...we are talking about cold calling, there is a difference there.And yes Ibanking is about client relationships, but when you do cold call its easier because you have the name of your bank to hide behind.
You don't say "hi my name is joe can I talk to the CEO?", you say "hi my name is Joe, I'm with Goldman IB department...can I talk to so and so"
big what kind of things do you talk about? That was my biggest problem with networking, there is only so many questions you can ask, and 90% of the time you get the same exact answer
Cold-calling is often the first step in networking when you do not have any personal contacts.
I'm still not sure what to make of this comment: "It won't work for me. For me to network I need to know the person I get referred by."
You are dismissing cold-calling like it is below you, when it is probably your best shot into IB.
If you have a question about how to go about networking, swallow your pride for once and start a thread asking for advice.
If you can impress them well enough on the phone, they might just want to speak with you further to learn what you can put on the table (although as an analyst you're best bet is to show that you can take it up the ass and still have a grin like the Joker).
Cold calling is a way of networking, so there is no such thing as "exhausting" your networks. You should only be able to continue building your network. Unless of course you know everyone in the world, and if you've done that already and still don't have an offer, then maybe you should look at yourself because there's obviously something wrong with you and not everyone else or the system that you're not recruited.
Found a SIFE team. Go to www.sife.org and see if your university has a SIFE team. If it doesn't, find out what it's about. Then email the SIFE folks and ask if you can attend a regional or national event this year. And then found a team.
Just by attending a regional or a national final, you'll get a lot of good networking done. I'm not sure about US SIFE sponsors, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the banks were there, especially judging NY regionals.
PM me if you want more info on SIFE.
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